Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  44

  What I do know is that there is peace to be found and there love to be had, after the organisation

  by LIftsong in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my mother became a jw when i was six months old so i was brought up within the confines of the organisation.

  i left properly in my early twenties and i am now 43 so a good 22 years of life, post being a witness have i travelled and documented thus far.

  mine was a typical experience of a child in the congregation and i was busy doing my best to be a little adult as the child within slowly fell asleep.

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  Doubting Bro

  Paul,

  What a moving thread to open with. Welcome and look forward to your contributions!
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  38

  Does anyone have a scan? - JUNE 15 2009 WT Study Edition

  by Ultimate Reality in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this one has an important article on the faithful steward and the governing body.

  cannot find one anywhere.... .

  thank you in advance!.

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  Doubting Bro

  While there are many things to say about this article, I'll limit my comments for Blondie's review when we get a bit closer.Tthis seems to be a review of the QFR article that dropped the 1935 closing of the annointed date. I didn't catch any "new light" but I still think this is a step before just dropping the whole annointed thing and making the GB the faithful slave. I'm shocked that haven't done that already.

  Some of the liberties they take with Bible verses still amaze me. There are numerous examples but take a look at para 9:

  First, they admit that Paul & Barnabas were sent out as missionaries by the Antoich congregation without any direction from the "1st century governing body". Right, because there wasn't one. If you believe the Bible account, I'm thinking Jesus striking you blind on the road in front of witnesses, speaking to you and then restoring your sight would be ample proof that he wanted your help. Yeah, the other apostles selected Matthias by a casting of lots, but it seems to me that a booming voice and blindness outranks lots. But that's just me.

  Second, they refer to Gal 2:7-10 as the "1st century governing body" confirming Paul and Barnabas as apostles. Why don't they quote Gal 2:1 - Just read the first 3 words - FOURTEEN YEARS LATER. Really, if there was a central command in the first century, why did they wait 14 years before they "confirmed" Paul & Barnabas. Here they are starting congregations, baptizing people, going on missionary tours and the "GB" didn't weigh in? Could you imagine that today?? You mean to tell me that NO ONE in the Jerusalem congregation was aware that Paul & Barnabas were out and about without their permission? The only logical answer is that Paul & Barnabas didn't need their permission because Christianity was never set up to be a command and control religion. Oh, according to the account, Paul & Barnabas went to Jerusalem not due to a request from a governing body but because they received a revelation. And, according to Gal 2:2 - he approached those who "seemed to be leaders" because why? I would imagine because there wasn't a formal leadership structure.

  The more I really think about what the WTS writes, the more annoyed I get. And to think I actually believed they were "God's channel" at one time? Good lord am I stupid.
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  25

  Any mores news / rumors on no COs come 2011 - (winston?)

  by tresdecu in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i hate to beat a dead horse.

  but just curious.

  winstonchurchill a new poster on the board is a former longtime co, what is your take on this?.

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  Doubting Bro

  abbagail - I think you're refering to Kline. Henschel was a rather tall man.
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  19

  Counting Time: Is it Scriptural?

  by cameo-d in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is the purpose of punching jehovah's timecard?.

  doesn't wt psychologically imply that jehovah "owes" them paradise because they have "worked" for it?.

  it seems there is a scripture somewhere about "love does not keep an accounting".. perhaps one of you can find the scriptural incidence.. .

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  Doubting Bro

  Having been the secretary and an elder for several years, I began to realize why time was collected. It had nothing to do with scriptures. Notice these:

  Acts 1:15 (NWT) - 15 Now during these days Peter rose up in the midst of the brothers and said (the crowd of persons was all together about one hundred and twenty):

  Acts 2:41 (NWT) - 41 Therefore those who embraced his word heartily were baptized, and on that day about three thousand souls were added. 42 And they continued devoting themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to sharing [with one another], to taking of meals and to prayers.

  The WTS often points to Acts 1:15 as the beginning of the Christian Congregation since that's when Holy Spirit was poured out on Jesus disciples. If accurate statistics were that important, why didn't someone take an accurate count. A group of 120 isn't that large. Even if no one thought it was important at the time, certainly the accurate number would have come to the Bible writer under insipration if it was vital. Point is, it didn't really matter if there were 118 or 122. The about 120 number is giving the reader the general impression of how many people were there which is really all that is necessary.

  So, the reason time is collected is so that local elders can closely monitor peoples activity in the literature distribution work. Everything a JW does is measured by what's on that time card. When discussing who should be appointed as an elder or ms, the number one item of discussion (in my experience) is the brother's time. If married, the wife also has to be turning in close to 10 hours unless there is a major health problem. Although the scriptures in Tim & Titus are in theory used to determine if a man is spiritually qualified, if he's averaging 8.5 hours in FS, it wouldn't matter if he fit every description of those scriptures, he would still not be used. In meetings reviewing a brother's qualifications, I would (as secretary) sit there with the box the time cards were kept in and pull names as they were mentioned. If their hours were less than 10 on average, the discussion would be over very quickly. All this despite there being no specific mention in the qualifications for servants about a person doing evangelizing work as a requirement.

  Also, you can't manage what you don't measure. As Gary & WC said, it's business behavior not religious. The WTS is afraid that if they drop the reporting requirement, people wouldn't go door to door. It's really that simple.
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  20

  Pre-Armageddon vs Post-Armageddon

  by Nosferatu in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what really is the difference between before armageddon and after armageddon?

  before armageddon:.

  - devoting our lives to doing jehovah's work (spread the good news).

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  Doubting Bro

  The thing that always made me wonder is Armageddon II - The Final Test

  So, you work your tail off now, make it through a mass slaughter of 7 billion people, work to clean up the destruction and teach Ben Button style all the new resurrected generations back to Abel's time, only to find out that's not good enough.

  It really doesn't seem very fair to make those same people have to face down Satan again, this time with less protection. You'd think the armageddon survivors would get some sort of excemption. How many times does the world need to be cleansed?

  However, contrast that with the 144k who get immortality once they get to heaven. That really seems unfair.
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  29

  Have you ever seen anyone get into fisticuffs

  by John Doe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at the kingdom hall?.

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  Doubting Bro

  Yup. 2 elders in the parking lot. One was a smart-ass and the other had a bit of a temper but is a great guy. The later finally had enough and after a screaming match, decked the other. Because there were so many witnesses to the event (it was after the meeting one night), they df'ed the good guy. Frankly the smart-ass needed to get decked and everyone in the hall was in agreement that he deserved it!
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  48

  Have You Ever Walked Out Of a KH "Meeting"?

  by african GB Member in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  did you have enough of boasting, and decided to walk out?.

  that's what happened to me during this week's bs about how to "treat the disfellowshipped"?.

  i just picked up my bag and stormed out...... will i get called into the back room?.

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  Doubting Bro

  Welcome WC - Look forward to hearing your story and your comments.

  Ex-CO? What do you think about the rumors that the CO arrangement is going to change drastically?
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  33

  The Rapid oncoming time of the end part 1

  by Homerovah the Almighty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  to the student of ignorance and fear mongering : regarding your proclamation of the end times.. the point is the select signs of the times of the gt as written in the bible could be placed well in any moment of human history.

  for last 2000 years and even be placed with greater accuracy in the middle ages, so when someone reads information from apocalyptic religious.

  cults like the jws who are trying to superimpose fear into people so they will react in the way they want them to react, hence it pays to analise.

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  Doubting Bro

  (1) The arrival of two witnesses from Jehovah. These two men or group symbolising these two men will have supernatural powers so as to prove from whom they have been sent. Having the powers to close heavens to rain, turn rivers to blood and to do whatever it is they wish to do and for as often as they wish. These two men will be put to death at the end of their 42 month mission on earth by the Wild Beast.

  Ok, when that happens let us know! At least your version is better than the WTS version of some guys getting tossesd in jail and then working through the legal system to be released. Not much of a mircle there.

  One question, if they have supernatural powers, how can you kill them? Kryptonite?

  Sorry for the sarcasm but you really should apply for a spot in the Writing department at Bethel. Although something tells me that you may have written them before.
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  35

  How Public Talks are Done by some Congregations

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  reading lady lee's post about collecting public talk outlines made me recall the following:.

  when i was the public talk coordinator and cong.

  secretary, i kept the public talk file.

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  Doubting Bro

  I was the talk coordinator both as a MS & an elder. When I was a MS, I'd run my propsed list by the PO before contacting the other congregation. I was never as organized as any of the above posters. I did try to work through all the outlines but frankly, there were so many poor speakers or guys that wouldn't give talks out that it was difficult. I also tried to hook up with each congo in the circuit to get some variety.

  There were only 2 times that the talks were so bad that we "counseled" the speaker afterward. Neither time it went very well and there were complaints registered with the CO (and DO in one case). At the end of the day, it was much easier to just avoid the guys than offer any constructive counsel.

  I also ran into several congregations that had say 8 elders on the list only to find out that 5 of them didn't give talks out. It wasn't because they were poor speakers, they just basically didn't want to do it.

  I will say that I sort of enjoyed doing the talk coordinating. It was fun horse trading and a few times I agreed to give talks at the last minute (like the night before). I would always note my file and when I needed a favor, I would call in my chips.

  Like Snakes said, there were a lot of politics involved and at one point in my career, I was interested in playing the game to move up the ladder. Silly, now that I think about it!
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  91

  The Official What happened at the Memorial thread

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought rather than everyone start their own topic relating their experience of attending the memorial, we keep it simple and have just one thread.

  if anything, it's saves bandwidth.. i will be going to the memorial tonight and will post my experiences afterwards.. all the other memorials i attended, i was an active jw, so this will be my first experience as a submarine witness.

  it's weird being on the other side so to speak.

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  Doubting Bro

  Our "big event" was pretty uneventful. We had 190 (average 120 on Sunday). Shockingly, no one came because of the tract campaign (ok, not shocked!)

  No partakers as usual. There were a couple of studies but most of the non-dubs were kids of family that faded. There were a couple of guys that were sporting a golf shirt, jeans & sneakers. They look much more comfortable than me in my suit! I don't really know them but I was told they grew up in the hall - so I took their attire as a statement that they really just came to make their mom happy.

  Attendance was down quite a bit - likely due to having the late shift. There looked to be about 20 or so open seats - no standing! Talk has already been summarized pretty well. I also cracked up at the mention of the almost 10k partakers vs 17m attenders. No mention of the increase.

  I did help a few older folks get to their seats so at least I got to imitate Jesus a little.